This is an educational forum, with the ability to reach more co-workers. There is a gag order and an agreement made with Tenet and the NNOC, so on site education in a hospita setting is difficult. The NNOC has filed charges and compland anytime on site education attempts occur. Does that help you?
The internet is used by unions also, in case you are unaware.

When did we ever vote on this kind of agreement? Why didn't anyone let us know this? I thought if we wanted a union, we vote on it.

They are definately still in our institution. We will know our fate as of Monday May 18, 2009 according to the NLRB. National Labor Relations Board. An information officer assigned to our case indicated that was the last day that they could file for an Election Petition. If a vote is decided based on the percentage of signatures or cards signed, then the important message we need to convey is that every nurse needs to vote. The election is based on the percentage of the voting body... 10 nurses vote 6 say "yes" the union is in despite the fact that there are 700 nurses at our facility...

Why is everything frozen... Pasnap promised raises, benefits, ratios.... when will we see this?

why are the union folks allowed to sit in our break rooms. isnt that a hippa violation? and how come they take pictures with their phones.

Just wondering how others nurses are feeling here? My unit is completely against this, but do the other units feel the same?

Thanks for the information. I was wondering what this union is doing now that they filed for election. Is there anything going on?

The DATES are posted. Please get out and VOTE!! Our independent practice and our professionalism are at stake, not to mention our individual unit flexible scheduling.

When are the dates to vote and what can we do to get the truth about the union to the nurses that believe everything they say? This is really nice seeing support that y'all are sending from other states. can we tell the union organizers to leave our areas?

I don't know when the votes are, but I was told there are NO absentee ballots because you have to vote in person to verify you are who you say you are.

Jennifer, the only place where it was stated that there were 900 nurses eligible to vote was on the petition for the election filed by the union at the NLRB. you would have had to have acess to that information. But all in all, it depends on the amount of nurses that vote that day. If only 10 vote, it affects all 900 or 700 nurses, and will force those that have other views to become members of a union they did not pick and most importantly, DO NOT WANT. Voting is the most important aspect, and you are still protected by the secret ballot election process, so only uou will know how you vote.

All the best to you out there! If you need some ideas for flyers, just look at the ones we did at Saint Agnes in Fresno on the www.stopunions.com website. You are welcome to use the template and formulate if for your circumstances. And make sure that the most important message is that everyone especially your NO vote has to get out. The union did the same thing here and spred the rumor that you only had to vote if you wanted the union! Do not let them get away with it! We were able to distribute our flyers in the parking garage. There were always two of us at catching one shift leaving and one shift coming on. It was very helpful.Form a grassroots group and start working! you have to keep the union out! All the very best!

Hey Jennifer, I am wondering why the number of nurses is so important? One crucial point is that nurses have signed petitions to reverse the cards they may have signed to "get more information" or "have some food" However the union and NLRB have refused to give them back their signature... My question is 700 or 900 nurses did they really have enough signatures to actually petition for a vote?

Kim,
Keep up the good work of getting the facts out! It is so important to stress that voter turnout is the key! Get your NO votes out! We had a 97% voter turnout last May and gave CNA their biggest defeat ever! You can do it too! Write a letter to the editor. We also got the support of a radio talk show host who let us come on her show for a two our session. We did know that she was totally anti union. So pick your battles. We walked the halls on night shift and talked to people in the break rooms. Put your flyers out in the break rooms. Don't forget satelite clinics, ever vote counts! You can defeat them! Go for it!

We all support you, from Pasedena to Missouri, to Florida, and back up to Phili!!!!!

please see the folowing web sites 1-800-nounion.com

www.thenurseunchained.com
www.stopuions.com
www.onevoiceourvoice.com
www.laborunionreport.com
www.dol.gov.org

I would love to work with you , to continue to put my patients at risk , because I have to leave them in the care of another nurse with a full assignment when I try to get my lunch .I am happy to take the cuts in my benefits , whilst my fellow Tenet unionized , have a contract so were not effected by the cuts .As to lies ,at my hospital we voted against the union , believing the hospital would match what had been agreed with the union , but once union was voted against , the hospital rapidly tore up the agreement , then our pay and conditions were reduced . We learned our lesson , when we had another chance we voted for the union .
How can forced unionism occur ? , there is an election ,for goodness sakes . If you don't want the union vote against it , but if the vote goes against you , are you prepared to accept the results of the democratic process?, as I would if you win .
It will be interesting to see how free speech is tolerated by the moderator of this forum .

By the way, would anyone happen to know if the union plans on showing up for the debate that RAFU has challenged them to set for this Monday?

Or is their only strenght thru intimidation, coercion, spying, harrassment,stalking, and making promises that they have no power in the outcome. Remember, the employer never has to agree.
Just look at Englewood and Bayonne Hospitals in NJ, the nurses are locked out due to unreasonable demands and can be permanently replaced.

I am not a fellow employee but I am a nurse who supports your efforts. People who believe that unions improve work conditions are misinformed. Check out the unionlabelblog. Unions served a purpose at one point in time for certain workers. Nursing was never a good fit for the union mentality. Unions never unite a work environment, they contribute to an "us against them" mentality between workers and management. That is never good for patients. We are educated professionals, why would we ever want some union rep. speaking for us?

Valerie, Your not kidding about at hostile environment. The union thinks they own the place and the election did not even occur. Taking unauthorized pictures, stalking, following and spying on anti-union nurses. The tension is not good now for patient care, I can only imagine what happens when they are voted in!!!!

What I find amusing is the idea that Tenet choose CNA , to represent you .
Lets be perfectly clear Tenet does not want any union in any of its facilities .
For whatever reason several years ago Tenet decided to enter into an agreement with the SEIU ( I believe Tenet didn't want to face possible industrial action whilst it was being investigated for some illegal / unethical action ,which brought about us having to do CIA classes now ), but having opened pandora's box , they ended up with the nurses choosing CNA .
Through negotiations ,by floor nurses with Tenet , the right to attempt to organize at other Tenet facillities was won , which is where we are now .Tenet nurse not Tenet Corporation are the ones , you should blame , if thats what you wish to do ,for CNA being at your Hahnemann .

Well, Jon, why do you waste your time on this blog? It just smells too much like a C.N.A. "plant". We dealt with the most dishonest lying C.N.A. organizers when we went thru our fight against C.N.A. and were able to uncover the lies with facts. One meeting I went to 3 differnt organizers tried to convince me how C.N.A. could improve my life as a nurse. None of them had EVER been a nurse or anything close to it! Their main goal was to find more "victims" and ultimately more nurses who would be paying almost $100 a month in union dues!!!They organized a Rally in front of the hospital stating that dozens of Saint Agnes Nurses were present...well, we were there and we counted 4 and two former employess. The rest of the group were supporters from other hospitals and other union groups. And yes, the EFCA is a huge issue! C.N.A. is already counting on it and we need to do everything we can to keep this disaster from us. Enough of all this!What counts now is that you keep any union out of your environment. You have my full support all the way from California. There are a lot of good things from California, C.N.A. is certainly NOT one of them!!! Keep them out!!

Hi Inge ,My first thought was ,It’s a free country , so I can waste my time in any way I like . Actually I do not consider it a waste of time participating in this blog as I am interested in current affairs ( general and nursing )and felt drawn to participate .

As to why I choose an avatar , its simple , for all the talk on this blog of CNA intimidation ,all they can do is attempt to talk to you , if they did so in a intimidating manner , you would be able to report them to the appropriate authority and they would be liable to suffer the consequences , as set out in law .Whilst if I gave my identity , it is probable that info would get back to my Tenet facility , then they would find some way of getting rid of me ( if any of us is put under a microscope a just cause could be found to terminate us N.B. just cause , a protection we have because of our contract )) , not such a great idea in this economy , to put my family’s well being at risk ,just to please you .So I could be dramatic and say I swear on all I hold dear that I am simply an employee at another Tenet facility , but I’ll just state that .
Whether you wish to cling to the idea that any one who disagrees with you and has the temerity to come on this blog , must be a CNA plant , feel free ,if it makes you feel good .So Sue , What does it matter which Tenet facility I work at , I work for Tenet .

Sue have you heard of a figure of speech , so the figure of speech I chose was “tore up”, so I will clarify what occurred :-

Tenet chose SEIU ,as our prospective union , the details of that agreement were published , in which it stated we were going to receive 3 pay raises , across the board , of something like 8%,5% and 7% ( sorry I can’t remember the exact %’s now).

But the RN’s chose to organize ,with CNA , at this point Tenet tore up that agreement .whilst the organizing drive occurred anti union nurses , maintained that if we voted against he union Tenet would be grateful and give us the raises detailed in the Tenet / SEIU agreement (TSA).

After the vote occurred , we received the first pay raise as per the TSA , the second raise was delayed by about 6 months and was not given to all nurses , we never saw the third raise .

Due to management irregularities , the NLRB decided there should be another vote , which due to Tenet showing how much it respected professional nurse , during the intervening period , led to a vote for CNA .

The piece you miss is that the CNA nurses negotiated the right to come to Hahnemann , in the master contract , because of the contract Tenet had to fulfill it’s obligations to allow the organizers in .Respectfully I would say that shows an example of the power of having a union contract , It makes an employer , have to honor agreements , policies and the laws that effect management , employee relations .Management can no longer make changes to those relationships without your agreement .

If there has been more than 1 organizer on the floor , was it reported ? ,if so was it found to be for anything other than a valid reason ? E.g. .the second organizer was unaware of the firsts presence , but once they were , one should have left .

I think the important message is that you the Professional Nurses have shown the impotence of individual nurses to make your employer listen to you , by allowing the breeches of labor laws at Hahnemann to continue e.g. Nurses unable to take legally mandated breaks i.e. If you are having to answer the phone , be able to be paged , chart etc .,you are not meting the legal definition of a break . Wouldn’t it be nice to have a few moments respite from the hectic pace of your unit ( as we do ), then be reinvigorate to provide good professional care to your patients .( N.B. before you twist it I DO NOT infer that you give anything less than the best care you can manage , but there are studies that a well rested , less stressed employee performs better ).

Also as to professionalism , throughout the union organizing campaign I mentioned , both sides kept their debate out of public areas of the facility , whilst at Hahnemann flyers have been put out in public areas e.g. by the elevators , that strikes me as very unprofessional . Now if I had been management whether those notices where pro or anti union , at the very least I would have reprimanded the people who put them up , a further occurrence would result in termination .

Sorry this was so long but I have tried to answer dispassionately the queries you raised , as I have throughout this thread I accept your valid points , but challenge you upon that which I know to be incorrect.

P.S.

The Election Procedure Agreement is available to see at :-,http://www.nrtw.org/files/nrtw/Tenet%20CNA-NNOC%20Election%20Procedure%20Agreement%20Texas.pdf

Although it simply shows the document , not the signatories

No one asked you for your identity and "whilst " you refuse to say which Tenet facility you work at, it's kind of like the anonymous complaint, anyone could have written it.

If you would have done your research prior to attempting to make any sense on this forum perhaps you would be taken seriously. As far as how you would behave as a manager, you obviously do not understand what the "EPA" means, but that's neither here nor there.

Wherever you are from and whoever you are, how would you know anything that is going on at Hahnemann. I believe unless you are an attorney, and well versed in labor law, acting on behalf of the CNA, you would have no access to that information, "whilst", or a CNA organizer perhaps.

The fact of the matter is the NNOC is uninvited here, and all of this double talk you are doing, well, if I were you, I would sure enough find something else to do with my time "whilst".

So whoever you are, can we expect to see you on Monday for the debate? Because the message is strong and it's clear "VOTE NO TO PASNAP/NNOC/NNOC ON JUNE 17TH & 18TH"

Bottom line... RN's are a professional group who must stand together as one voice. WE do not need a third party to speak for us. We, as nurses, must realize that we are empowered to make significant changes in our health care environment, become highly engaged in our congress... WE do and must continue to represent ourselves... speak for ourselves and build our profession with our own strengths! WHY would we look to others, who are not RN's speak for us. With all the other self gain motives CNA has, that should speak volumes alone!
And yes, dues at our hospital would have been very close to $100.00

WE fought the Union off at our hospital, with a vote WIN for NO to the CNA 452 to 327! We were tenacious and stayed true to educate ourselves and our fellow RN's. We must mentor one another, and continue to build our own profession. GET ENGAGED together! NOT with the CNA or the SEIU!

Sue , the only reference to how I would act as a manager , was when talking of the posting of flyers in public area's , which is both unprofesional and against Tenet policy ( HR109 ) , nothing to do with the EPA .Interesting how you tried to skirt the reference to unprofessionalism , by those who posted the flyers !.

Was the way I depicted Hahneman inaccurate ?. I could be a present or former employee of Hahnemann , I could have freinds who work there . There are many ways I could obtain the information I potrayed without being an Attorney or Union organizer . Again are the conditions I described accurate or not ? , remember we both know the real answer to that , as would any Nurse working at Hahnemann .

NursesForUs , I'm sorry , I've read your contribution ( point 2 ) to the thread several times , but can't make any sense of it , could you please clarify .

NURSESFORUS

Thankyou for you comments.

1.The cost of the dues is undebatable, Inge is right. Read the bylaws for your area. Just an fyi that is the cost of dues in NYSNA. It goes by region. We have looked at other nurses unions and what the members are paying. And dues increase on a yearly basis, in most instances.

2. Jon's comments are one of the reasons that unions run the risk of "talking without thinking and promising without delivering". Nothing is often a very good thing to say.

3. Kim is an employee and included in the unit and has sect 7 rights to refrain from......she also works within the confines of HUH. The union organizers are allowed to roam the hallways, sit in nurses lounges, take pictures etc. They are not employees, they were invited by Tenet, NOT THE HUH NURSES. No mixup in the concept, merely facts being stated by the one of the rank n file.

Since Jon does not have a clear understanding of your statement to him, perhaps you would like to clarify privately, on your own blog or email, perhaps you can enlighten him on collective bargaining and our sect. 7 rights.

Once again, we thank you for your interest.

RAFU VOTES NO ON JUNE 17TH & 18TH

RNS AGAINST FORCED UNIONISM VOTE NO!!!

I'm stating not suggesting that you are skirting around the question of unprofessionalism and breach of Tenet policy !.(N.B.Sue ,not you personally , but those that produced the flyers )
It's interesting how when you are asked questions you don't like , based upon facts , that you run to " this is an educational forum "and don't answer them , but no matter , if any unbiased reader checks out this blog , they will note that discrepancy.
I choose to seek answers from you who wish to educate on this blog as it suits me . Otherwise you would simply be preaching to the converted and what value is there to that ?.For the purpose of the election both sides have to maximise their vote , not just talk to themselves .

And in case you doubt any of that be sure to visit the NNOC websites, look up Catholic Health in Ohio, it's all there, all put out in press releases by the CNA/NNOC. Do not put your own spin on it, because it will do you no good.

So should we expect to see you on Monday?

VOTE NO ON JUNE 17TH & 18TH AGAINST CORPORATE FORCED UNIONISM.

I hope I can attend because I am working tomorrow. What is this guy Jon coming on here? Do yu think he is really a nurse? I don't, I think he is just an instigator looking to pick a fight with someone. Too bad, he must not have much to do. could you post the times for the debate on here?

Well Sue , I think I have responded to you , with the respect of a fellow professional . You continue to do what you accuse me of double talk . As I said ,I have no reason to question your profesionalism , but being a professional , it seems you should be concerned when you see behavior ,that is unprofessional ( the postng of flyers , in public area's ), as I said earlier when the organizing drive occurred at my facility neither side behaved unprofessionally , the debate was kept away from our patients and visitors .
Actually as in the case of question of the professionalism of the flyer posters , I think I am attempting to educate any unbiased reader , who comes across this blog .
Now lets address your invite / challenge " If you are looking for a debate, show up on Monday " , this is somewhat disingenuous , because from what I said earlier ( re .protecting my family from the probability of Tenet retaliation ) ,you knew , there was no chance I would come to your debate .

Yes I am aware of the no retaliation policy , I believe we are both very aware of how effective it is !.
I do however hope that both sides present a good case to the attendees and the audience listens respectfully to both sides .

PASNAP/NNOC & NURSESFORUS, we invited you to a debate, gave you more than enough notice, waited for 2 hours for you arrival.

YOU DID NOT SHOW.IS THIS THE KIND OF REPRESENTATION THAT NURSES WANT?

VOTE NO JUNE 17TH & 18TH.

THEY DID NOT CARE ENOUGH TO SHOW UP FOR A SIMPLE DEBATE. DO YOU TRUST THEM?

VOTE NO VOTE NO VOTE NO VOTE NO

THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT, INGE. WE HAVE 2 DAYS OF VOTING........KEEP YOU POSTED.

REMEMBER MAINTAIN OUR PROFESSIONALISM AND VOTE No!!!!!!!

ALL PER DEIMS MUST VOTE, VOTE NO AND RETAIN YOUR STATUS.

Apparently the Labor Board is holding back on the vote count due to outstanding ULP charges.

Still waiting pending resolution of Unfair labor practice charges as per the National Labor Relations Board. Outstanding show by Hahnemann nurses at the polls, stay strong!

Alot of hard work but we did it!!!

Never forget that we are the voice of our profession, never lose your passion or your dignity. We took an oath and we are powerful!
official blogsite connected to this site
http://www.rnsagainstforcedunionism.blogspot.com

Although I'm not happy with the result , congratulations upon getting what you and about 56% of the voters wanted .
I hope you will use the power you feel you have as professional nurses tolook at Sams comments and adress them , if you can bring about real changes in Hahneman / Tenets actions then you will have met your obligations as professional nurses . Good luck to you and all the nurses at Hahneman , I feel you will need it .

Hi Sam,

As you very well know, Kim does do rounds on other floors. RAFU is mor than just Kim, its a network, not one person's view. Tenet exploited you with an EPA with the CNA/NNOC. Unions do not provide a more "stable loving patient care" enviorment, we do as professionals. If you have issues that you find are not to your liking then let me suggest you get involved in some of the committees within the nursing department. Certainly the unions have no place in business and making money. That is what they do, dude, they make money, they take power, and you are still left holding the bag. The union is not what the end all and be all unless you chose not to speak for yourself. If you would rather pay someone to do it for you, then you are just a worker, not an advocate for better patient care.

If you feel better calling it that go ahead, the title of the site is RNS AGAINST FORCED UNIONISM, so your point is?
The fact that Tenet made a back door deal with the NNOC, disturbs me more. That is called corporate unionism, it what ruined the American car industry.
So whatever you want to call it, just call it like it is, and to say people on this site have not pushed a med in a long time is offensive, but our comeback may be perhaps you never have.

Kim I wish you had appeared on this forum earlier as at least you appear to stick to facts ,as you see them and do not suffer the paranoia that somebody who doesn't see Hahnemann as they see it , cannot be a nurse .
We have both seen the floors at Hahnemann , I have seen the nurse at breaks doing charting , answering spectraphones ,responding to pages and interuptions for a myriad other reasons.At my present facility when I take my break I am relieved by a nurse whose assignment is to act as break nurse , with no other patients assigned to them .
So why not make it an aim of the self governance commitees to gain this for the bedside nurses of Hahnemann .As we both know an adequately rested , reinvigorated nurse is the best one to care for patients .
As to the timing of the benefits cuts , indeed they did occur at a time when you at Hahnemann could not fight them ,but they effected all non union Tenet facillities at that time and none were able to do anything about it .

As I believe I said earlier in this thread , I am a NURSE , working , now at another Tenet facility .I feel that Unionization is a better route to change , but as I have previously said I believe in the democratic process , so whichever side the NLRB comes down in your favor , so be it .
If you are able to institute changes such as break nurses , or safe staffing ratio's , then that would be great .I am pragmatic enough to accept that change , beneficial to the bedside nurse , however it is achieved , should be the professional ( whether unionized or not ) nurses aim .
Please try to institute , changes such as those mentioned above , as it is the professional thing to do , to try to ensure the nurses do not have unsafe assignments and have some time for breaks , so that they can be in optimum condition to care for their patients .
I have worked at Tenet long enough to know that the chances of you suceeding in making these changes are minimal .

Jon;

just caught up with your blogs. Interesting to me that you continue on this site. we have another site www.rnsagainstforcedunionism.blogspot.com.Hope you will get somewhat educated there.

Jon, not for nothn, and of course that is an east coast term, which you may or may not understand, because your bio states that you are salt in all Tenet facilities. And I have no issue with that. But what you should do is tell your union that we do not fear them. Nor do we back down without proper ammo. Not needed. You certainly speak in high tones of who you are.

sheroe, didn't bush steal that election? The vote is over. There is no union. Everybody get back to doing their jobs. No matter how bad or great the conditions are. Remember the patients.

Daquin,

You sound angry. Since we originated in Philly and in a hospital, then perhaps this is a threat? Not a good tactic in light of things. Sam is right, remember the patients.

Dienekes,

Thank you for your support and accolades.
The very words we say and think not only describe our world but actually create it.

Thank you to the S.H.I.E.L.D NETWORK for your guidance and your faith in us.

Cindy,
Thank you for your comments and support. And you are right, God don't like ugly.

This is about patient care. God bless you.

Thank you for your support. Kim is a super star............we are so indebted to her for her commitment and her professionalism. She is a force, someone we should all want to emulate. We continue on our journey to promote and advocate true PROFFESSIONAL NURSING in the name of patient care. You are welcome to join us on www.rafunetwork.ning.com, It is an invitation and an adventure. Membership is based upon approval of the administrator. Your confidentiality is of course your choice that we respect and maintain.

Once again, thank you for the recognition.......RAFU

The job conditions are still sub standard at HUH. Rafu doesn't seem to be any help at all for the pro nurse cause. They were only successful in keeping out the union. Please help focus your effort on improving job conditions. We need to for the sake of the patients and staff.Thank you.

Kim, well said. RAFU is a network for education on unions and labor law. It is up to us as professionals to speak for ourselves.

Why do you think Temple cancelled it's strike? We are living in times that need a good looking at by all of us. We need to survive, technology is replacing lots of our functions and will continue to. Big business is no different than Big labor. They go hand in hand hence the sweetheart deal made between Tenet and the NNOC.